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International with DT466 blowing Engine Ignition fuse
#1
Hey guys,

We have a truck here that came in for routine maintenance and started acting up when the customer came to pick up the truck.

we had the truck outside running on high idle (finished) then it just died. tried restarting it and it only cranks, will not fire. tried hooking up the computer but Service Max and Jpro would not connect to the engine. checked the fuse panel on the driver side splash guard and found the 5 amp "eng ign" fuse was blown. replaced the fuse, blew again as soon as i turned the key on. pulled the ecm plug off, replaced the fuse and loaded tested the wiring with a headlight bulb. turned the key on - light came on, fuse didnt blow. sounds like an ECM problem...

Got a good test ECM, plugged it in and the fuse blew instantly. tried putting a 7.5 amp in, same result. followed the wiring from the fuse panel right to the ecm plug and cant find any signs of damage.

Its acting like a dead short but isnt touching ground anywhere.. im at a total loss here.

im wondering if anyone has seen this before or can even get me a wiring schematic to confirm the way its wired. I always thought the "eng ign" fuse was one wire that runs directly to the ECM for ignition power..

vin of the truck is 1HTMNAAM64H612045 if that helps.

Thanks in advance!
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#2
Does this truck have the ecm mounted on the side of the engine or on the fire wall?
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#3
Ignition power from the fuse/ign relay goes through the 4103 connector. Rectangular shaped plug with 2 rows of wires. This voltage signal goes to the ecm. A single pin on both chassis harness plugs gets an ignition signal. The ecm then sends ground signals to the power relays to send battery voltage to the ecm.

Disconnect the chassis harnesses from the ecm, turn the key on and see if a fuse blows? You can save on fuses by making a short tester. 2 connectors to replace the fuse connectors with wire and a light attached to them. The light will act like a high amp load. If there's a dead short, the light will be bright. If the short is remove, the light goes out. Makes it easy when doing a wiggle test to isolate a section causing the fault.

With the ECM harness disconnected and the ket turned on, the light in that fuse location should not light up. If it does then there's a dead short in the wiring. Disconnect the 4103 plug to see if the short is before or after the plug.

If the light does not light up, reinstall a fuse, pull both power relays and turn the key on again. you'll set codes. if the fuse blows then it might be the ecm.
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Thanks given by: TestProbe
#4
(06-13-2018, 08:54 AM)firefighterf18 Wrote: Does this truck have the ecm mounted on the side of the engine or on the fire wall?

Side of the engine
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#5
https://mega.nz/#!TokTyYIS!9fGWa5aZ_1awn...bQA-0QbUnE
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#6
(06-13-2018, 09:12 AM)IROC Wrote: Ignition power from the fuse/ign relay goes through the 4103 connector. Rectangular shaped plug with 2 rows of wires. This voltage signal goes to the ecm. A single pin on both chassis harness plugs gets an ignition signal. The ecm then sends ground signals to the power relays to send battery voltage to the ecm.

Disconnect the chassis harnesses from the ecm, turn the key on and see if a fuse blows? You can save on fuses by making a short tester. 2 connectors to replace the fuse connectors with wire and a light attached to them. The light will act like a high amp load. If there's a dead short, the light will be bright. If the short is remove, the light goes out. Makes it easy when doing a wiggle test to isolate a section causing the fault.

With the ECM harness disconnected and the ket turned on, the light in that fuse location should not light up. If it does then there's a dead short in the wiring. Disconnect the 4103 plug to see if the short is before or after the plug.

If the light does not light up, reinstall a fuse, pull both power relays and turn the key on again. you'll set codes. if the fuse blows then it might be the ecm.

whats the 4103 connector? if i disconnect the OEM side plug from the ECM and turn the key on, the fuse does not blow.

I will try installing a light in the fuse location and seeing if it lights up with the key on, ecm disconnected.

like i said originally, I used a test ecm off a known working engine and im getting the same result.

this one is mind boggling (for me).
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#7
4103 connector is in that harness bundle beside the fuse panel. It's a black rectangular plug with a red slide lock to split the plug. There should be 2 plugs that look the same in that location. You just need to figure out which one it is.

After the fuse, Pin 19, circuit J97UA on both sides of the plug, 18 gauge violet wire. The harness will splice somewhere after that plug. Circuit J97C goes to one chassis plug at the ECM. J97M goes to the other chassis plug at the ECM.

If a known good ECM is also blowing the fuse then it's not the ECM causing the problem.
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Thanks given by: CDNFirewerks , TestProbe , timbruun
#8
(06-13-2018, 11:41 AM)IROC Wrote: 4103 connector is in that harness bundle beside the fuse panel. It's a black rectangular plug with a red slide lock to split the plug. There should be 2 plugs that look the same in that location. You just need to figure out which one it is.

After the fuse, Pin 19, circuit J97UA on both sides of the plug, 18 gauge violet wire. The harness will splice somewhere after that plug. Circuit J97C goes to one chassis plug at the ECM. J97M goes to the other chassis plug at the ECM.

If a known good ECM is also blowing the fuse then it's not the ECM causing the problem.

Thanks for all the help!

I pulled the engine side connector off, re connected the vehicle connector and turn the key on. doesnt blow the fuse. I have NO idea how the inside of the ecm is designed but im wondering if one of the battery supply power wires arent supplying enough amperage and ecm is pulling the required amperage through the ignition power.. that or one of the output devices on the engine side have a dead short..

i 39
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#9
So there are 4 plugs on the ECM. Two are chassis plugs. The other 2 are engine plugs. The engine side plugs should not make any difference since they are sensor, modulators, turbo, EGR etc and injector circuits.

So you're saying both chassis plugs are connected and the engine connectors are now disconnected? You should be able to communicate to the ECM. You'll have a huge list of active engine faults but should not have any ECM voltage related faults.

If this is the case, plug in one of the engine harness plugs into the ECM and see if the fuse blows. If not, pull it back out and plug the other one in. If the fuse blows, you're probably going to get closer to finding the dead short circuit.
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